Aaron RossTranscript:
SPEAKERS
Aaron Ross, Bob Inglis
Aaron Ross
Welcome to Everyday Theology, where we don’t tell you what to believe, or why to believe it, but rather explore our Christian beliefs and why they matter for us in relation to God, to creation, and to others. My name is Aaron Ross. Today with me on Everyday Theology, I have a real honor of having Mr. Bob Inglis with me, he’s a former congressman from South Carolina and he’s the executive director of Republic EN and so thank you so much, Bob, with for being here with me today. Great to be with you.
Bob Inglis
Thank you.
Aaron Ross
If you wouldn’t mind, just letting our listeners know a little bit about you your story your past and where you got to where you are today.
Bob Inglis
In the beginning. Well, there’s, there’s a mom and dad who loved me so much. So I, let’s see, I grew up in Bluffton, South Carolina and went to Duke for college and then University of Virginia for law school, practiced law for a couple of years in Savannah, Georgia, moved to Greenville, South Carolina, and then practiced commercial real estate law there until running for Congress. But we can get into that later, I suppose. Butalong the way, you know, since this is a It’s wonderful to talk with somebody in a faith frame that’s really about faith. You know, a lot of people that operate in the climate space, in the faith frame are actually theological liberals, if there’s such a thing. In other words, they maybe have not such a high regard for Scripture.
Aaron Ross
Yeah.
Bob Inglis
And are very permissive view, I should say, of Scripture, maybe as a polite way to put it. And they’re political liberals as well. And so they come into the climate conversation that way. And it seems, well, it’s not, it doesn’t scratch when you get to people who have a high view of Scripture, who can tell pretty quickly that the people talking to them don’t share their commitments, their faith. And so anyway, so for those who are wondering about this guy’s getting ready to maybe talk about climate and it’s one of those, you know, a little view of Scripture and a permissive view of Scripture and a political liberal. Well, it’s like this I grew up in the Episcopal Church, going to church every Sunday, in college came to faith, understanding that it’s a relationship, not a religion. And so, that led me for a long time into the Presbyterian Church in America, a very conservative denomination with great teaching, scripture teaching and then after that long sojourn now have returned to the Episcopal Church, where there’s room for the mystery of Christ in the Episcopal Church, the great strength of the Christian Church in America is fabulous, teaching the weaknesses maybe gets everything cut and dried and maybe cannot cut and dry god he’s Yeah, he will always surprise us with some mystery, something beyond what we think we’ve got him all figured out. And so that’s where I come from. And by the way, that way political liberal, you know, after 12 years in Congress, just to give you some numbers from outside rating groups 93 American Conservative union rating that’s an A in most places, I think, yeah. Yeah. Hundred percent Christian coalition, hundred percent national right to life, A with the NRA, zero with the Americans for Democratic Action, that’s a liberal group, and 23 by some mistake with the labor union, the AFL CIO, so ratings would indicate a pretty conservative fella.
Aaron Ross
Which begs the first question, I think, for our listeners, I haven’t really ever explained this, but you know, I grew up in In a deep south Christian home. Jesus was basically akin to being Republican, being a Christian was being Republican. And growing up, I grew up in a tradition that said whatever we do, it doesn’t really quite matter how we take care of the Earth, because God’s gonna just blow this Earth up eventually, and he’s going to give us a brand spanking new one that’s gonna be better than this one. So, you know, do as much as you want with, you know, fossil fuels, take as much as you want. Don’t worry about over farming, and none of it matters, because we’re just going to get a new one. And that’s the kind of Republican conservative mindset that I kind of had built in me within my Christian upbringing. And yet, here you are a at the time, you know, being a congressman, being a Republican congress person, you start caring about climate change and climate action. For you what kind of brought you to the place of saying, you can be a conservative, and you should care for the climate?
Bob Inglis
You know, for me is a three-step metamorphosis. You know, I, my first six years in Congress, I said climate change is nonsense. I didn’t know anything about it, except that Al Gore was for it. And if Al Gore was for that I’m against it. Okay, so I admit that it’s pretty ignorant, but that’s the way it was six years ago.
Aaron Ross
I mean, that’s what that’s exactly what I was told, growing up as well.
Bob Inglis
Yeah, so then come, then, let’s see. I was out of Congress for six years, doing commercial real estate law again, in Greenville, South Carolina, had the opportunity to run for the same seat again in 2004. And my son, the eldest of our five kids came to me, he’s voting for the first time that year because he just turned 18. He said to me, Dad, I’ll vote for you. But you’re going to clean up your act on the environment. His four sisters agreed his mother agreed new constituency was born, you know, change the locks on the doors. So, and my son was gonna vote for me no matter what, right? I mean, it wasn’t he wasn’t making a classic interest group threat, you know, do this, that he was really saying, I think, Dad, I love you. And you can be better than you were before. So how about make this Inglis 2.0, the new and improved version, you know, and be relevant to my future and your four daughters’ futures. And so, that was step one. Step two was going to Antarctica with the House Science Committee and seeing the evidence in the ice core drillings. Step three was another Science Committee trip, and something of a spiritual awakening, which seems improbable on a godless Science Committee trip because we all know scientists are godless right? Well, apparently not. Because I was this Ausie climate scientist was showing us the glories of the Great Barrier Reef and the challenge of coral bleaching. I could see in the way that he was interacting with what he was showing me that he was worshipping God, he was not worshiping the creation, he was worshipping the creator behind the creation I could tell so without words, you know, he communicated all that in the brain, his eyes would light up about things his voice speaks so excited about something just showing me down below and come to the surface and say talk about it, his face was all lit up. I mean, he was just his worship for him. And so later we had a chance to talk and he told me about conservation changes he was making in his life in order to love God and love people. Scott here and he’s now become very dear friend he takes his bike to work he does without air conditioning as much as possible in Townsville Australia pretty hot place and families close out in the line to avoid using the electric dryer all the consciously love people coming after us. So I write my inspired I want to be like Scott, loving God and loving people. So I came home introduced the Raise Wages Cut Carbon Act of 2009. That’s a revenue neutral border adjustable carbon tax. Those last two words get you in real trouble. The first words are you know revenues, yo man, these are getting kept taxes somewhere else or dividend all the revenue back to the citizenry, so there’s no growth again. meant, if people could hear that, they might say, oh, that’d be alright. And in the border adjustable means we’re gonna apply it to imports so that we basically muscle China into the same thing. That’d be all right. And maybe that make it so that carbon tax would be okay. But you got it. People fixate first on that carbon tax. And unfortunately, I did that in the fourth district, South Carolina. And after 12 years in Congress, I got 29% of the vote in a Republican runoff, and the other guy got the other 71% of the vote. So ever since that spectacular faceplant I’ve been out to convince fellow conservatives that it is, in fact conservative to act on climate change.
Aaron Ross
Yeah. Which, which I think is a, an interesting story, I think, and the multiple kind of metamorphosis there. Because I would assume, to some degree that that my story, while I didn’t have any kids telling me that they weren’t gonna vote for me to start my change, you know, comes to a place of a theological spectrum, what I was told was going to happen at the end of the Earth, or what we call in times in this getting a new Earth, right? And, and then just also the, the being awakened to the caring for others, through the caring of creation, became fundamental for me to say, Hey, this is actually important. And I think that if God loved this creation, then God wants us to love it as best we can as well. And that becomes problematic when we talk politically. As as you just kind of mentioned with your election there. Where do we go? How do we handle trying to be if whoever’s listening to this would say, I identify as a conservative? How do you be a conservative and care for climate when there are times it seems like those two things are actually antithesis to each other?
Bob Inglis
Yeah, it’s so such an important question, because it’s like this. If you’re conservative, and you’re concerned about climate change, you’re among the most important people in the world. The left is going about as far as it can go, you know, to quote a line from Oklahoma, you know, they gone about as far as they can go. This isn’t going to happen. We’re not going to take action without American conservatives and especially American conservatives of faith getting into this conversation. And so, but what you just started Professor I’ll be your student for a minute and tell me whether we here we are talking about everyday theology. So, you can tell me Professor whether I do okay, on this quiz. I understand that eschatology thing you’re talking about. Okay, I used to be panmill. You know what that is? It’s all gonna pan out in the end, so doesn’t matter. Yeah. But then I finally came to understand it from a guy who PCA minister, Presbyteryan, America minister, who, who then became an Anglican, and he diagnosed my problem. He said to me, okay, Inglis. So talk to me about what you think about the end times eschatology. And so I’ve talked to him and he said, so here’s the thing, Inglis, the three things, three ways to look at this one is a premillennial view. That is it, things get worse and worse. And then Christ returns, and the judgment and the Earth goes away, I guess. Second is amillennial view, which is it good and evil compete all the way to the end, all the way from the fall to the end. And it just manifests itself in different ways. You know, in Roman times, they they threw live born babies out in the trash heaps. And Christians went and gathered up those babies and saved them. Now it’s in an abortion clinic. That happens. And so it’s not that the sun has changed. It’s just the same sin. It’s just happening in different ways. And so that’s the amillinial view. And in the post module, he told me was that the kingdom comes when things happen when when Wilberforce outlawed slavery in the British Empire. The Kingdom took a step closer to it. The ways of Christ were being honored and that the kingdom is coming. And so after all this, he says endless here’s your saying, You are awesome. mystic amillennial you know that center has been there since the beginning of the end and we’re going to struggle with it all the way the end. But you want it to be. You want to be William Wilberforce; you want to help with climate you want to. You want to make it so good things happen here for the common good. And so you’re an optimistic amillennial. Said to me, the problem is for you Ingliss. In South Carolina, most believers are premillennial. Every time that you were talking this optimism in free enterprise, and free people engaged in free enterprise solving the problem of climate change. You were you were challenging their thought that no, everything needs to burn up. So, if we can just burn it up and use it up. Okay, because it can burn up anyway. But I, I really, so I remember one time being in New York by myself, I found myself in this courtyard of this restaurant, eating by myself. So, I decided to call up a PCA friend, Pastor. And I said, you know, Tim, do I need to change everybody from premillennial to at least optimistic amillennial in order to succeed in this climate endeavor I’m about? He said, Oh, no, Bob, don’t try to do that. That’s impossible. Talk to them about creation care. And of course, that’s, that’s what I hope we can do is I don’t no need to change anybody from being premillinial millennial, if they want to be premillinial into being like me and optimistic amillennial. We can see the value of caring procreation.
Aaron Ross
I want to ask a couple questions.
Bob Inglis
What kind of grade did I get on that paper, professor?
Aaron Ross
Yes. So, A-Plus in my book.
Bob Inglis
Okay, good!
Aaron Ross
That all sounded wonderful to me. So, if I had my own school, you’d pass and that means literally nothing to anyone else. So, my question, I think, would really kind of focus you mentioned in your story that you, you know, you were on the committee, this committee for science, and that you got to go see some of these things. Like, like, I’m very jealous that you got to go to Antarctica. And actually, kind of observed there and talk with scientists who I’m with you growing up, I again, was kind of taught this weird dichotomy that scientists were against God. And Christians had everything they needed in terms of science. Where in what way do you say you got to see actually the negative effects on climate? And how did it change your mind? Because I think there’s so much statistics out there. There’s so much stats, there’s so much science that would actually say yes, the climate is changing. Yes, we’re seeing negative impact. But so many people just don’t listen to it. So how did it affect you, you being on that Science Committee? And how did you actually kind of be awoken to this reality is actually changing?
Bob Inglis
Well, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s true, we make climate science very complex, but actually, at its essence, it’s really pretty simple and quite understandable. You here’s where now you’re switching from everyday theology to be my science teacher in high school. Okay, so this is really, the basics of it is just high school science. Now, the modeling of it, that’s, that’s post PhD stuff that’s very intuitive, but the basics are this. You know, if I’m burning trees in my fireplace, this winter, that fell on my format, you know, we live here on a 27-acre farm that that’s where you’re pretending to be a farmer, you’re not really a farmer. We have chickens and horses in a great big garden, and we pretend to be farmers. You know, I love my tractor and I drive around the tractor. So, if I if I take those trees that have fallen my woods, chop them up, bring them in Berman fireplace and I’m accelerating the process by which that carbon dioxide we returned to the atmosphere from the rotting of those trees in my woods. I mean, if I leave them in the woods to rot, the carbon is sequestered in that tree is going to combine with oxygen over time and it’s going to float back into the atmosphere. The living trees in my forest and are grabbing that carbon dioxide. Using it is in this amazing God given process of photosynthesis, which what we learned in high school, they, they turn it into oxygen for us, which is incredible. They take the co2, they stick the carbon in themselves, they let back out the oxygen. And in God’s incredible design, we are blessed with breathable air. Okay, so So now if I burn that tree, I’m just accelerating that process by a little bit. No big deal. Right? If I go deep in the earth, and pull up trees, long gone, we won’t go into how long it is, I mean, it’s long enough to turn it in enough, turn it into coal and natural gas and petroleum, the fossil fuels, I bring those to the surface and that burn them. I’m changing the chemistry the air, nobody objects with that. Not the most ardent opponent of what we say at republicen.org about climate change can object to that reason they don’t. Because it’s a chemical equation. It’s got an equal sign in it, just like we learned in high school chemistry, it’s got a balance on both ends that equation. So nobody disputes that you bring up those those trees long gone in a different deal like geological time period, you burn them, you change the chemistry, the air, then the physics of light. Okay, this may be a little bit beyond high school physics, but it’s really, I took physics, energy principles. It’s Physics for political science majors in college. Okay, so it’s not real physics. But it’s like this physics, it’s been known since the 1800s is that sunlight enters through this atmosphere, it strikes the earth creates radiant heat, that heat doesn’t all go back into space because of the presence of the greenhouse gases. Thank the Lord. If it did, if we did just zoom in, zoom out, we’d be just like the moon right hotter when the suns on us and cold at night when it is Sun’s against no on the other side, right? So, we have this wonderful moderating influence. And so you put you put more up there, and you get more tramping. It’s just that this really pretty simple idea, nobody objects to that, not even the most ardent climate skeptic would say that that’s wrong. Here’s where it comes to this dispute is how to model it, how to decide how much sea level rise there’ll be in my hometown of Bluffton, South Carolina as compared to say, Charleston, South Carolina. Because there can be differences between those two places, it depends on the speed of the Gulf Stream, passing by 70 miles off the coast is going to determine some part of climate change of sea level rise there. And it’ll depend on the differences even in the 90 miles from Bluffton to Charleston. So modeling all that, and telling us 50 years from now, what’s going to be? Well, that’s a hard thing to do. And yeah, it has all kinds of assumptions, and you can pull them apart. But in the main what it shows is the chemistry and the physics show that we’re changing the Earth’s atmosphere.
Aaron Ross
Right. And so the question becomes, what does that do?
Bob Inglis
Yeah, and what is it do? Is it into it? You know, to some extent, some things may be good, you know, like, if you’re in Minnesota, you might say, hey, less harsh winters, that can be wonderful. But on the other hand, you know, these polar vortexes remember all the talk about that is mean, here’s an example of something that could happen or that Yeah, Minnesota might get a little bit warmer in the winter, they’d be happy about that. But the reason it’d be so perhaps, I don’t think the scientists are 100% sure of this. But the thought is that the jet stream flies across the Arctic, it’s just this wind that just blows from west to east and essentially keeps the cold air from coming down into the lower 48. But as that pattern gets thrown off by the relatively high degree of warming in the Arctic, that would be a zipping when going across the Arctic now becomes a undulating wind it sort of goes sometimes it zips sometimes it doesn’t sometimes it zips and and when it doesn’t zip there’s this burst of cold air so like opening your freezer door out near, as if you’ve got an outside freezer and you know, in the summertime you open it up and blast comes out and you see the fall go into your hot garage. That is a polar vortex. And when it comes down and hits Florida with cold it confuses people is like wait a minute, what are they telling me about global warming. But now it’s cold in Florida on this polar vortex. Well, it’s climate change. It’s because of the warming in the Arctic. But we were so led by people who tell us silly things, who then make fun of it and say they don’t understand it. And who would have thought of it? Yeah, it’s cold in Florida, therefore, it’s not going to change it. No global warming. No. Go look it up. It’s because of that warming in the Arctic that you’re cold in Florida in a polar vortex. Yeah. And really, please people, you can understand it. We were not. Don’t Don’t we should not allow ourselves to be led by black sheep. You know, we should say no, we can figure this out. We’re smart enough to understand this.
Aaron Ross
Which being someone who has lived in Florida, you know, I don’t know if I should say ashamedly, but my whole life when windows kind of cooler blast hit us, we’re like, oh, this is this is nice. This is different. Yeah. But then when you have a Christmas, that’s 85 degrees, 90 degrees, you’re like, Oh, this is terrible. So, we’re getting both ends there. Now your work with RepublicEN. And in trying to help move kind of the goalposts on my own language. They’re right on climate change and how we kind of handle it. What is your primary kind of way of trying to help move that make that happen to where more people are going to be caring about climate change? And how we take care of the Earth? What’s the main kind of work and how should we attack this head on
Bob Inglis
Most of our work@republiky.org is just liking fellow conservatives coming to him and saying, You’re okay with us. We like you. You believe in free people engaged in free enterprise you. And you’re not the dumb kid in the class. You’re actually the smart kid who knows that Milton Friedman was right, that the way to fix this is not by trying to regulate it or to incentivize it with federal tax incentives, but rather to just price in a negative effect. That’s what Phil does. You know, that’s what Milton Friedman said on the Phil Donahue show, you know, Phil Donahue, you’re too young to remember this, Aaron, a lot of your listeners are. So, Phil Donahue is a white guy doing an Oprah show, basically. That’s what he was. He was a liberal in Chicago. And it’s literally like an Oprah show except just a white guy doing it. And so he used to get on with Dr. Friedman, who is of course one of Reagan’s advisors. Father of the Chicago School of Economics. very conservative, fella, it didn’t know but so he says to Friedman, one time on the show, he says about pollution. And Dr. Friedman, if you don’t want to regulate it, Friedman says, You tax it, you tax pollution. And then he goes on to explain how it is when you have somebody producing, say of a product. And they are trashing their neighbor’s lungs or their neighbor’s creek. You can’t let them get away with that. Because if you do, there’s, in terms of economics, there’s what’s called a market distortion. There’s a this, this guy or gal from that company is selling a product that doesn’t have all of its costs reflected in it, because he or she is being able to dump their costs, their waste, onto their neighbors into their lungs into their creek. And hurting their neighbor while selling what looks like a cheap product. And so Friedman says, You’ve got to have the government, the government, the only one can do it. You can’t I mean, the government has to step in and say timeout, guy or gal. You can’t do that anymore. You have to clean up the stuff you’re putting in the air. You have to clean up the stuff you’re putting in the creek because you can’t do unto your neighbor what you wouldn’t do to yourself. It’s a biblical law that actually became English common law that became American common law. And it is now reflected in the way that we approach government is you say, you can’t do that. You got to own it’s cost you got to be accountable, be responsible, and isn’t that that where we find the answer to your earlier question to Aaron, is it that’s what we find conservatives when they hear this concept of accountability. They know that that is rock solid conservatism that we conservatives believed that blessings come from accountability. Yeah, havoc resolves from lack of accountability. Climate change is that havoc. And so in the Freedmen example there, you got to say to that, that guy or gal dumping in the creek or dumping the air, own it, hold it in, keep on your property, that waste, take it to an appropriate dump, do something with it, but don’t hurt your neighbor. And then when that happens, they say, Oh, well, that’s terrible, you know, I’m going to have to buy some equipment to clean up stuff I’m sticking in the creek, and I’m going to have to scrub my smokestack, and that’s going to cost money. And then my product is going to have to I’m having to charge more for my product. And what Dr. Friedman would say, if he were still alive is Yeah, that’s exactly right. And now we want you to do we want you to have in the price of your product, the actual cost of it. Because across town, there’s a competing guy or gal, they don’t dump in the creek. They don’t dump in the air, but they make a product that’s similar, but it’s more expensive, because they don’t dump on their neighbor. Right, they actually are accountable and responsible. And so, when you do that to the guy or gal who’s dumping, the person across town suddenly has more customers, and the world is better off. Because they’re getting the widget, the thing they needed that product they needed. But it’s now clean. And yeah, they’re paying the appropriate price for it. Isn’t that appropriate. You can’t, there’s no such thing as a free lunch and once you dump in that neighbor’s lungs, they end up at the hospital, well, then we all end up paying, if they’re on Medicare, or Medicaid, or if they’re on BlueCross BlueShield, and your families and BlueCross BlueShield. Believe me, you pay for that for that hospital admission. And so no such thing as a free lunch, be accountable. And then blessings flow.
Aaron Ross
Which is beautiful when it comes when we think about that through that kind of theological paradigm, right? Caring for the other, literally doing that very thing that God the greatest, you know, commandment of just loving God and loving people, when we when we live in a sense in a space in which we are purposefully caring for other people, then it should actually bless all people, including ourselves. You know, I think about myself, you know, and this is my own my own personal journey and taking care of the climate and thinking about these things is that, you know, I like Amazon for a reason, because I can find the cheapest thing. I can find, you know, the product that I need at the cheapest price, which doesn’t ever ask me to say, Well, what is the actual true cost of this product? Or what’s the true cost of every time the new iPhone comes out to get the new iPhone when mine works perfectly fine? And, and I don’t, I don’t know if that’s something that typical shoppers to even typical Christians ever think about in their buying and then their spending of money is what is the actual true cost. And I think about to some degree, that reality that I remember, especially in the aughts, in the mid aughts, where there was a big new push to buy everything made in the USA. And everything had to have that sticker made in the USA. And that was if you were shopping for something do that because it helped America. And I wonder if we just you know, need to be more aware of the big push towards buying things that are carbon neutral, buying things that are taking care of people rather than the buying just the cheapest good, that saves my bank account.
Bob Inglis
Yeah, that’ll certainly help people being aware of that and checking it out. And a way that we think that will become automatic, so that we actually don’t have to do that research on our own is it is through this pricing mechanism. And this is where, you know, you can see how politically it is difficult it admittedly, smart is hard. Dumb is easy. That’s one of the things I learned in politics after 12 years in Congress. That’s what I learned smartest are dumb is easy. You can say dumb things to people., and they will they will cheer you on. You say something that is smart and hard, and they rub their heads because they’re like, Oh, this guy is just really hard to take. So right. What right badly happens is a lot of times politicians tell us really dumb things. In order to just get us all riled up, but if what you just talked about is something where you would go research and find out whether all the costs are accounted to this product. Now consider the impact the automatic impact of a carbon tax. And again, politics, that’s hard. Yeah, it will be for a carbon tax what you’re talking about man mean, tax on, here’s what happens. You’re going to carbon tax at the mine at the pipeline. And you’re less than 2000 companies in America that either mined coal or put stuff in a pipeline that ends up at a gas station. So, it’s a very small job for the IRS. But still, here’s the bad part of that. The price of everything at the end of that pipeline goes up. Yeah, you put on a $25 per ton price on carbon dioxide. Because it’s the price of gasoline to go up at your gas station by 21 cents, okay, not catastrophic, but it is a 21-cent increase in the price per gallon of gasoline, and it’s not going down from there, it’s going up. Now it’s not going down. It’s not like now we’re racing up and up and up and down, and up and down. And up, and it’s going to stay up there. Because of the carbon tax, the price of propane for your grill goes up the price of plastics that you use in your life go up. And, of course, now endless for Congress, he wants everything in your life to go up in price. Who wants that? You know, I mean, so. But that’s where you have to say yeah, but we can take, we’re going to give this money back to you in the form of tax cuts elsewhere, or we’re going to just literally dividend the money back to you from the carbon tax. So, it’s like the Alaska permanent fund where the Alaskans get a check in the mail. And so, you’re going to have money in your pocket. And now, everything is not as automatically goes to its true cost, because now it’s all accounted in there by the carbon tax. If those plastics go up in price, well, it’s because they’re now paying for their emissions. Right? If the price of the propane goes up? Well, because it’s you’re paying for the emissions. And so then what happens is one of the propane grill, people figure out how to make it more efficient. So burns less propane, right? And the, and then you’re offered an Amazon or wherever you’re going to buy your propane grill a more efficient propane grill that uses less propane, because now you’re you realize how dear it is, and you want to save it, and maybe there’s less plastic wrap on things because people say, Well, I don’t need, you know, I get a toothpaste box. Why do I need a box as well as a tube? Why don’t you just sell me the tube? And then I don’t need the box? Thank you. And yeah, and so all that starts happening? Not because the government regulated it, not because somebody came up and wrote regulations and then headaches government sedan rolled past your house and tell you a good boy, good girl, bad boy, bad girl. No, no, it’s just in the price. Make your own decisions at Walmart, and they offer you the tube, just the tube for several production less than the one with the box. Well make your own choice you want to take home and fill up your garbage can or your recycling bin, or you want the tube? Well, I think I want the tube thank you. And so, then what happens is the box to box people will dry up, they won’t be toothpaste in the Walmart, it’ll be easy to do.
Aaron Ross
In some ways, it reminds me of that kind of staunch thing again, being taught growing up of what a true entrepreneur or businessperson was, which is a constant innovator. And when these things happen, you know, when we actually put taxes on things to take care of our neighbor, then true innovation will find a way in which you can do the business in a better way that you cannot have to pay that tax because you’re already doing it better.
Bob Inglis
And we’re what we’re doing is we are cheering for our neighbor in the thing back of that is simple accountability. We are we are actually being accountable before God and fellow humankind, for who we are and what we do. Blessings flow from that. And so, it becomes a loving response to people after it’s a loving response to God of saying Yes, you’ve established these rules, because you are the ruler of the universe and you put these things in motion. And when we follow those rules, blessings flow. First of all, we’re blessing God for worshiping Him, but also, then we are blessing our fellow human beings, because we’re creating a better situation for them and for us.
Aaron Ross
Now, I have to ask, because we’re kind of getting close to our time here, but we’re also in, you know, an election year and election cycle. And so, coming from the unique vantage point that you have as being that person who has been elected to one of those high offices, and the work that you do with RepublicEN. I can imagine some listeners may be thinking, Well, how do I vote? What’s the best way that I can vote? Not the person, but the way right, in which we can do that we can better vote for taking care of the environment, while we still may want to hold on to being a conservative, and other parts of our politics. What’s some ways that people can manage that tension that seems to be happening right now?
Bob Inglis
Well, I think, you know, my view is that in voting, we’re really saying something about ourselves. We’re, we’re saying what we want reflected in our country. And that’s what I think we really should be guided by that right to the heart of the matter about the character, the nature of the country, what do we want it to look like? Because any representative democracy or a constitutional republic is really what we are. It’s the people reflecting themselves in the government. And so, we are responsible for the way the country looks and feels. And so, I think is essential for a believer to really think about that, about what it how do you want the country to look and feel? And out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. And so it’s, while we can’t expect any political later to actually reflect all of Christ’s likeness, because we all have feet of clay. We really do need to examine whether somebody is understanding their feet of clay and relying on grace. Okay, that’s, that’s a safe person, I think to follow. But a person who does not has never asked for forgiveness, let’s say, who does not understand grace, who in every way exhibits a crassness in life, that’s a person that unbelievers should really be concerned about following seems to me because you know, in politics, there are three ways to look at things is now sound like under political science professor giving the theology Professor a test.
Aaron Ross
I’m going to fail it that I can tell you already
Bob Inglis
You know, you can, you can approach politics as a utilitarian. That’s somebody who says, we should be after the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Well, please, fellow believers, don’t ever follow a utilitarian ethic is an awful ethic. It basically would be well old people are really a drag on society. Just kill him off. You can make that argument as a utilitarian, it’s an awful philosophy. Yeah. Then you don’t normally hold back, Bob, go ahead and tell us what you really think of utilitarianism. Then you can be a what’s called a consequentialist. You can believe that the consequences are what matter. Do I get the policies that I want? Is this guy or gal going to give me the policies, the outcomes that I want? Caution here, it sounds okay. But here’s the problem. That quickly gets to might makes right and the ends justify the means. And there have been terrible times in history where believers have fallen in with that and have said, well, it’s going to be good for the church, it’s going to be good for whatever we’re going to get what we want out of this really evil guy or gal. And it never turns out well. Ask as the German people how that turned out. Ask the German church, how that turned out? Yeah, in the 30s and 40s. And then you have the third view, which is the big word deontological view, which is that it’s always the right time to do the right thing the right way. And that I submit to you is the Jesus way, is that you want to do the right thing, the right way. And if you do that, good things happen. Because I agree to saying he set up the rules about how this universe works. If you get with those rules and follow them, you’ll find blessings, all of us go against them, all of us break them, all of us have feet of clay, all of us need grace. But if you get back up, and attempt to follow His ways, there’ll be blessings. And so that’s what I would implore fellow believers in thinking about any election is just to think, okay, now the guy or gal offering themselves to you? Are they utilitarian, a consequentialist? Or are they have the deontological school to do the right thing the right way? And then, once they present themselves, ask yourself, and who am I? Who do I want to be? And right now, I think not many people struggle with utilitarian, a utilitarian ethic because most of us realize that’s a bad thing. But we are in a big struggle right now in America, among Christian believers, between being a consequentialist or being the ones that do the right thing the right way.
Aaron Ross
Yeah. And I think that, that struggle, and I wish we had time, but we don’t, but that struggle is a struggle for so many younger people in America, younger Christians, who struggle with being told that exact thing do the right thing at the right time. On one hand, but then in the political sphere, being told to be a consequentialist, and it doesn’t match up.
Bob Inglis
Yeah, and good for them for noticing it. And they really, these are just like my son got through to me on climate, hopefully, young believers will get to through to their parents and grandparents, a grandma, you know, you’ve always taught me to do the right thing the right way. You’re departing from that Grandma, in being a consequentialist, and saying this guy is going to get me what I want. But how is he going to get it? Get it in an honorable way? Does he get it according to the process? Or is he going outside the process? And so, there’s a, there’s a prophetic role that young believers play in this situation. And it gives me a lot of hope, because I find that among young believers is a real commitment to a to these kinds of principles. So, they’ve been taught well, by their parents and grandparents, it’s just their parents and grandparents, maybe you’ve gotten to the place of fear of being having people scare them. And now they are grasping for that consequentialist, that just get it done and might makes right and ends justify the means. They’re grasping for that. And they need to be their children and grandchildren. To be the young believers who say, Now, you’ve taught me not to do that. Right. And let’s do it together, let’s do the right thing the right way.
Aaron Ross
That that’s really helpful, I think. And it’s also hard. Because trying to find, I think, maybe in our political reality, that balance between following Jesus and recognizing what that looks like, and then also trying to find people who are doing the right thing in the right way, is becoming increasingly hard. And I know it’s a struggle. But I have to ask here, as we are closing our time, thank you so much for doing this with me and bringing this perspective to our listeners. How can people follow along with the work that you’re doing? And if they’re interested in learning more and kind of being a part of what you do, how can they do that?
Well, they can join us at republicen.org, it takes about 45 seconds, use your email address and your zip code, then we can know when we’re coming to town, that we can invite you to things and help you with information. Ways that you can be equipped to be that prophetic voice. And so yeah, it’s republicen.org. Join us, it takes about 45 seconds. And we’ll, we’ll have you on the list and watch your watch your email filter after that to make sure that our first thing is getting through to you so that you’ll be updated with helpful information and stuff that you can share with people.
Aaron Ross
Now, you also have a podcast I’ve heard. I just learned about it. And I’ve just been enjoying it. And so what’s that podcast for everyone?
Bob Inglis
Yes, it’s Eco Right Speaks. So, we’re the Eco Right. We’re a balance to the environmental left. And so join us at Eco Right Speaks. That’s our podcast.
Aaron Ross
Perfect. Hey, Bob, thank you for taking your time out of your day to do this with me. It’s been a pleasure and a joy and I’ve learned so much. And you get an A plus in my book in any theology.
Bob Inglis
Oh, good. Well, thanks. And you’re doing really well in politics. If I’m practical politics preacher I guess or teacher.
Aaron Ross
Well I appreciate it. It’s not very easy to do well at so thank you. Hopefully we will get together again soon.
Bob Inglis
Enjoyed it. Thanks.